Last week I posted Part One of the Geoff Shackelford interview in which we discussed his golf game and some thoughts on golf course architecture.

As promised, here is the rest of the interview which covers his writing and some personal topics. For some background, you can check out Geoff’s bio on his website.

You’ll notice a couple of times he references the Masters as though it hasn’t happened yet. He actually submitted these responses back to me while I was on a break from blogging, right before the Masters took place.

Once again, Scott Tesar provided a few questions, which are denoted with his initials (ST) in place of my own (KW).

Enjoy!

Geoff Shackelford interview – Part Two

Writing KW: When did your interest in writing begin/how did it develop?GS: I edited my high school paper and have always loved reading the newspaper. Though I rarely opened a book until the age of 20.

KW: Who was the first person who acknowledged your talent and encouraged you?

GS: My parents.

KW: Does the insecurity even end?

GS: Of course not. I can’t stand to read stuff I’ve done that’s more than 2 weeks old.

KW: Clearly you have a creative mind. Have you ever pursued any other ways to express it in addition to architecture and writing?

GS: Well besides my work as a male stripper and my “Def poetry” rants on postmodernism as it relates to the life and work of Leroy Neiman? Oh, sorry. Well, I wrote a couple of movie treatments and a novel, both with some golf in them. Not sure if those count.

KW: Do you write about other subjects than golf and golf architecture?

GS: Nope. I should, but golf has thankfully been keeping me busy and paying the rent.

KW: When and where were you first published? How did it happen?

GS: Riviera Country Club hired me to do a club history in time for the 1995 PGA. That was privately published. After that Masters of the Links was the first actual book bought by a publisher. As for magazine and print stuff, Golfweb on the Internet.

KW: How have your writing pursuits progressed since then?

GS: I wrote and compiled several more books since the early ones. Lately I’ve been doing more blogging and magazine writing, a lot less book writing.

KW: Do you ever write a book without a publishing agreement in place (now that you’re established)?

GS: Every book but Cypress Point and Grounds for Golf has been started without an agreement in place.

KW: When you write a book, what approach do you use (methodical, outline first, type away and edit later, etc.)?

GS: Depends. Most of my books involve several components, so I’ve started with an outline and then it evolves. Sort of like a golf course design: start with some ideas on paper, and then it all goes to hell from there and you hope it comes together at the end.

KW: How much of your time is spent on writing and how much on course design? Is it the ratio you want it to be?

GS: It’s 50-50 right now.

KW: What inspired you to start your website/blog?

GS: I wanted to follow up on the Future of Golf‘s many topics covered related to the health of the sport. So that’s why I continue to blog on the things I do. It all still goes back to that book. Though I would love to have more course design projects to post about! I also started doing it because I think it’s the future of journalism and communications and allows me to share my clipping files online with the rest of the world. Which can be a bad thing when I start getting too snarky.

ST: With the massive amount of content on your site and the frequency of your posts, you seem to post to your blog 24/7. There must be an established income stream to support that. Can you tell us about it?

GS: An established income stream? Did Tim Finchem submit this question? Just kidding. Actually, there isn’t one. It’s what Finchem would call a loss leader. It costs me a small amount per month to maintain thanks to a great host site called Squarespace (that I highly recommend). I don’t have too much bandwidth use because I don’t post a lot of photographs or video, so that keeps the costs down (though I’d like to post more photos and video if available). The site promotes my books and hopefully will be – big MBAspeak word here – a platform to write about and obviously promote my golf course design work as well. I’d like to think it has also helped me get in the door at some magazines I wasn’t writing at before, so it’s paid for itself.

ST: How much time do you spend reading the online world’s resources?

GS: I spend about an hour a day and generally do most of the posts in the evening with a few follow ups the next morning if there’s something I feel like commenting on or a story worth sharing. That might be a lot to some, but as far as looking for material, it’s stuff I was already reading and looking at for ideas because of my other interests in writing. During the majors it’s more than an hour a day, obviously, but that’s where blogging is most fun. I’ll be live blogging from the Masters so that I can make sure to document every silly thing Peter Kostis says.

KW: What are your favorite sources of current golf information, online or otherwise?

GS: Golfobserver.com online and of course in the print world, Golf World, Golf Digest and Sports Illustrated Golf Plus. I don’t get Golfweek anymore. I got tired of their publisher, Jim Nugent, shilling for the manufacturers both in print and behind the scenes. But now that he’s spending more time with his family and pursuing other opportunities at the PGA Tour publishing that bastion of journalism, PGA Tour Partners, I may re-subscribe because they have people like Brad Klein, Scott Hamilton, Adam Schupak, Rex Hoggard and Jim Achenback doing some interesting stuff.

KW: What peeves do you have about blogs/bloggers/blog writing?

GS: Not very entertaining or surprising. I want to be entertained and enlightened. That’s what I hope to do with my stuff.

KW: Can you give any advice to aspiring writers – specifically golf writers? (i.e. What to focus on, what to avoid, how to get published, how to make the transition from self-publishing, what to expect, other helpful hints, etc.)

GS: Don’t expect to make much money in books. I’m not sure about blogging yet, but probably don’t expect it there either. Outside of that, and it’s a cliché, but cliché’s are just truths that everyone gets tired of hearing about: find a “voice.” Even if it’s a pithy, sarcastic voice like mine, it’s me and I’m not pretending to be someone else. It will serve you well in all fields of writing and lets you sleep at night. When I read the golf columnists today in the magazines, there aren’t too many like Dan Jenkins who you can honestly say have an original voice. Bob Verdi, Jaime Diaz and Alan Shipnuck, in the magazine world come to mind (whether you like their work or not), while John Huggan, Lawrence Donegan and Steve Elling are really distinctive voices in the newspaper world. That’s not to say that the many others doing great work in golf are no good because they may not be getting the chance to strut their stuff writing a game story.

Personal

KW: Where is your home base?GS: Santa Monica, CA

KW: How much do you travel?

GS: Not too often. Though I hope that changes with the golf course design work.

KW: Is your office at home or in a separate location?

GS: In the east wing of my mansion.

KW: Are you married, in a relationship, a playa, live alone, co-habitate/Is your – if there is one – significant other in the golf industry or even play golf?

GS: I actually wear a diamond-encrusted necklace that says PLAYA and my mom asked why I was paying tribute to the beach. I had to explain to her what it means to be a playa.

ST: Describe your typical day?

GS: Jeeves wakes me around 8:30 with breakfast in bed along with the L.A. Times, New York Times and the Journal, then we spend the next half hour debating how to bring peace to Darfur and sobriety into Britney’s life. No wait, that’s Bertie Wooster’s life. Sorry.

KW: Why Pepperdine and not UCLA?

GS: I wasn’t good enough coming out of high school to play golf at UCLA, and my grades definitely weren’t good enough!

ST: What is/was it like being Lynn‘s kid? What opportunities did that afford you (i.e. doors opened, contacts made) or did it put up any barriers, challenges or assumptions you had to overcome?

GS: Well once I stopped playing basketball, there were no barriers to overcome. It was great though because I got to travel with him a ton when he was announcing, so I had seen much of the world by the age of 18 and met so many interesting people. And that was when flying was fun.

KW: Do you have any time for other hobbies? If so, what are they?

GS: I try to spend as much time at the beach as possible. I like to work out, read, watch movies and when we aren’t in the middle of a drought, I love hiking in Southern California and taking in our unique environment, especially in spring when the wildflowers and sage scrub look so great. I’ve even started to get into bird watching, something Ben Crenshaw has taught me a little about and which I’ve really grown to appreciate in my old age. I also love music and concerts, and love discovering new artists.

KW: Name one specific thing that makes you smile?

GS: Knowing that Bobby Clampett has been reduced to a fill in announcer for CBS? Oh sorry. Actually with the depressing state of our world, of late The Daily Show, Stephen Colbert and 30 Rock really make me laugh, which, therefore, makes me smile.

KW: What makes you the happiest?

GS: Good food, good wine and laughing with friends about this mad, mad world. Oh, and knowing that the Masters is just about here.

Thanks again to Geoff for his time and effort in answering all these questions and for sharing himself with all of us. I don’t know about you, but I certainly learned some things. Like who knew a male stripper could be so pithy?Next post.

Geoff Shackelford is one of the most prolific golf bloggers out there. His popular blog is a constant source of informed commentary especially when it comes to history and golf course design. He often posts observations on “MBA speak” and I particularly enjoy his hilarious series IM’ing with the Commissioners. SportsIllustrated.com’s Gary Van Sickle named GeoffShackelford.com one of the 10 “essential” golf websites along with the likes of ErnieEls.com, GolfObserver.com and Golfweek.com.

Even when I disagree with him, I find his opinions intelligent and thought provoking and he elicits some of the most engaging discussions you’ll find in the comments section on a golf blog.

But he’s much more than a blogger. He is a golf course architect and has authored multiple books on the subject and he writes for several online and printed golf publications as well. I personally admire his writing, style and career, and figured if I wanted to know more about him, so might others. When he agreed to participate in my e-interview, I went a little crazy with my quantity of questions. Knowing that my friend Scott Tesar (best friend I never met) was also an admirer of Geoff’s, I even threw in a few questions he wanted answered.* I never expected Geoff to answer as many as he did, and I am truly thankful for all his responses and the time he put into them.

Since there are so many questions, I have broken them down by category and will post them in two parts. This part covers his game and golf course architecture. The second part will cover his writing and some personal tidbits, so stay tuned for that!

*Scott’s questions are indicated with “ST“- mine are “KW“.

Geoff Shackelford interview – Part One

Your game

KW: When did you start playing golf and what were the circumstances?

GS: I tagged along with my dad and granddad when they played Valencia, home to the Champions Tour event. That was back when it was private, and not to sound too old, was surrounded by nothing. You could stand on the 14th tee and see nothing but open fields and farmland. Now there’s a Hyatt, movie theaters and a really neat putting course/restaurant called The Greens.

KW: Was it love at first sight or how did it develop?

GS: It developed slowly, more tagging along and then gradually got more into it as I got older and realized I had no jump shot, nor any ability to jump.

KW: What are your top five courses to play and why?

GS: If I had to pick in one of those desert island kind of ways, it’d be Valley Club of Montecito, St. Andrews, Riviera, Royal Dornoch and Armand Hammer. They’re all fun. In fact, I’ve had more fun golf experiences at Armand Hammer, a $2 pitch and putt in Holmby Hills, than just about anywhere else. My Pepperdine teammates and I used to go there after playing Bel-Air and it was by far more fun than the round at Bel-Air!

KW: What’s your favorite local course (in which you’re not personally invested) and why?

GS: Riviera. Masterful design. Though it’s slipping away quickly. I’m glad I got to enjoy it before Tom Marzolf got his hands on it.

KW: What’s your handicap?

GS: No idea. I rarely play. The last handicap I carried I was around a 2 index, which cost me a lot of money. I’d be thrilled to break 80 today. Bum wrist really took the fun out of it, as does the time it takes to play. Though I’ve had some desire lately. I found a chiropractor who adjusted my wrist and have graphite shafted irons that help.

KW: Lowest round score?

GS: 67 twice at Riviera from the white tees.

KW: Any holes-in-one?

GS: One, at Pismo State Beach par-3 when I was about 15. I also double-eagled No. 1 at Riviera with a 2 iron.

KW: Ever compete?

GS: Tried. Played at Pepperdine where I started for a little while, had a whopping two top-10 finishes in a four year career. Also played various amateur events, U.S. Open and Am qualifyings. Don’t miss it even a bit.

KW: Do you belong to a club?

GS: No. Though I’m sure there are many honorary membership committees reading this and wondering how to reconcile their oversights.

KW: What’s in the bag/do you have a favorite club?

GS: These days, as it’s been since the first Bush administration, it’s my trusty Ben Crenshaw Cleveland putter, an 8802 knock off. I had one I liked better, but it got stolen out of my car along with my other clubs. I am an all Taylor-Made guy now, with graphite shafts in the irons in hopes that it will take some of the pain out of hitting shots in cold weather. Finally got rid of my lousy Titleist irons and driver. What junk. Just kidding Wally!

Golf course architecture

KW: When and how did you first get interested in course design?

GS: Growing up at Riviera and reading George Thomas’s book as a teenager.

KW: Did you/do you have a mentor?

GS: Ben Crenshaw, Dan Proctor and Dave Axland were very kind to me during the Riviera greens reconstruction in 1993. I learned a lot from them and they encouraged me quite a bit. Bill Coore just thought I was some spoiled brat. Now he tolerates me!

KW: How and how quickly did your involvement grow/What was your first big break?

GS: I’ve had many, but I guess the first real break was doing a redo of Sinaloa with Dan and Dave when my dad operated it. I learned a lot. Meeting Gil Hanse was the next one.

KW: What do you consider the single most important aspect of a good design?

GS: Whether it’s fun and interesting.

KW: Are you a consultant now/what is the state of your business?

GS: I’m consulting at a few older clubs looking to restore some of their old style design character, and doing that either on my own or in one very special case, with Gil Hanse. I’m also hopeful that a few new projects with Gil are going to start soon. We have just gotten a job on Vancouver Island in Canada. The Prairie Club in Nebraska is still on the drawing board and inching toward a start date in 2008, and there are a couple of others we’re hopeful about.

KW: Do you/have you done course “makeovers” or do you stick to new course development?

GS: I’m interested in new stuff and restoring great old designs. Makeovers are tough, but I’d be interested if it’s the right project. There surely is no shortage of bad architecture built in the last 20 years in need of help. I’m just amazed how many courses call back the architect who messed up the first time around!

ST: When you first start a new golf course project, what is your first step?

GS: Routing the course. It sets the stage for everything else in the planning process. It’s all about routing. And that’s the most fun too. Trying to solve all the issues and walking the land, discovering great land forms or interesting quirks in the landscape that you want to build around.

KW: Do you have particular grasses and sands you prefer to use and do they vary based on region and climate?

GS: Varies. But as a lover of links golf and rugged looking courses, fescue grasses are my favorites. I can only imagine what Rustic Canyon would look like with more fescues and less rye. With sand, anything but the blinding white stuff.

KW: When you design a course, do you base playability on the average player or professionals?

GS: Both. I tend to be overly concerned with the average player since they’re the ones who ultimately make or break the course. But the design concepts for a hole start with figuring out a strategy for the good player, then placing tees, bunkers, greens based on that.

ST: What steps do you follow when designing the layout? What is your strategy/thought process for challenging the golfer?

GS: I’m interested in what is going to make them think. What is going to make them stand on the tee and want to place a shot on a certain side of a fairway based on the green design and day’s hole placement. It’s sad how rarely this occurs in golf course design. Yet most of the great holes have some meaning where the player has to take factors like hole location and hazards into account before teeing off.

KW: A lot of the newer courses that are built to challenge the longer hitters and their new equipment have plenty of room for a couple sets of forward tees yet it seems strategies and playability from there are barely considered. How much consideration do you put into how a course will play from the forward tees?

GS: A lot. It’s so tricky now with such a divide between long and average players. And then of course most golfers look at certain numbers on a card to determine the quality of the course, and that usually is just a number with little meaning about what the design has to offer. But you have to address it or else people will write off a course if it doesn’t meet certain “standards.”

KW: Do you see course design mentality starting to reflect the influx of female players?

GS: A little. Alice Dye’s formula for forward tees is really getting used a lot and has helped get some better forward tees in place. But we have a long way to go.

KW: Do you ever consult with/work with female designers when developing a course?

GS: Never have. I’ve talked with Amy Alcott a fair amount about design. But other than her, I’ve met very few women who have even the slightest bit of interest in golf course design. Why that is, I have no idea.

KW: What’s your biggest peeve about modern golf courses? Any peeves with the classics?

GS: With modern courses, they’re boring, overbuilt, ugly, drain poorly and little thought is put into the actual placement of hazards. Classics? Not really. They did some amazing things with horses and road scrapers!

To be continued…

And that concludes part one of the interview. Geoff really gave some interesting answers and I wish the interview could have been in person so I could have followed up on some of them! Thanks to Scott for for providing some great questions and of course to Geoff for his responses. And again, stay tuned for part two about Geoff’s writing and personal tidbits!

Skip to part two of this interview.

Next post.